How Do We See Ourselves?

I'd like to open this discussion with a direct quote from our Guild F.A.Q.:

Sureshot wrote:

• What is the guild's background story?
  As we know so little about the game and it's mechanics the backstory won't be fully completed until we recieve more information. However, as it stands the guild will be a small and secretive agency, comprised of an elite group of Bounty Hunters, Assassins, Mercenaries and Spies that make their living from contract killings, fugitive retrievel, espionage and protection for anyone that require their services.

This has been the descrition of our guild since day one and is obviously still at the core of who we are and what we do. But I was wondering if this still fully represents us as to the changes we have gone through in the last few months?

For instance all the cited character archetypes are Sith Empire classes. I’m not saying Sureshot should just go ahead and list all possible classes, but the current guild description feels odd now that we have a Republic department which in the structure of the guild is just as important as the Sith.
Furthermore, the last poll taken on the subject of which class their main is likely to be (found here) saw nearly half our members choosing the Smuggler whose services don’t get a mention. Speaking as a Smuggler myself I’m sure we’d be useful in assisting the other classes do their job, but maybe we could think about listing smuggling as a service?

But above all that (and the reason behind the thread title) is the perplexingly persistent perception amongst our allies of our being ‘a Bounty Hunter guild’. I can see that this might stem from the BfH early days, but it seems we’re not doing enough to dispel this image. I don’t even really know if I’m right in thinking we should want to? Which begs the question “how do we see ourselves?”

In my head we’re a neutral organisation which makes it’s money from both legitimate business and more sinister deals in diverse fields. I think of our activities being almost 50/50 legit/illegal in that the “E” in “E.P.O.C.H.” can encompass collecting bounties (legal) or contractual assassinations (illegal). Similar to how the ships at the guild’s disposal can be used for legitimate transportation of passengers and goods (legal) or smuggling and pirating (illegal). But I do however see the main play focus on the shady dealings (which are more fun) with the (more likely just talked about) legitimate business acting as a front. And running as an undercurrent to all this is the unsettling and malevolent presence of the mysterious Falleen manipulating things in and outside the Agency to whatever twisted ends he has planned.

That’s how I’ve come to think of our guild after the five or so months I’ve seen it develop. Does this sound right or match up to anyone else’s view of us? If I’m not far off an accurate description of how our guild now works then I think we may need to re-educate our allies as to our identity. And we should also look at rewording some parts of our F.A.Q.

Or is it as I fear and I’m living in my own little E.P.O.C.H. fantasy bubble??

I think of Epoch as being similar to 'Cerberus' out of Mass Effect. Our leader is "The mysterious Falleen" and their leader is "The Illusive Man". Quite a few similarities.

I pretty much agree with your observations there Red and although I don't want to play the Republic Faction up too heavily (I am an Officer of the Guild as a whole as well as Republic Head, after all), I do agree that the Smuggler Class is equally as popular as the Bounty Hunter Class and our image needs to be updated to represent that.

I was in fact looking to create a Smuggling-Ring subsection of EPOCH, or possibly something connected to it to do just that and was due to enter discussions with SureShot about it just before circumstances made him go absent.

At the end of the day we are meant to be a small, elite (and expensive!) group that people can call on to get the job done (A bit like the A-Team, except not so camp or stuck in the 80's! ) and while I appreciate Bounty Hunting is a big part of that, we need to include trade, whether legitimate or illegal (smuggler) and protection/mercenary work (Trooper) into the mix as well as catering for the second Sith Class (Probably a Spy/Assassin). We're not really the sort of unit that would use Jedi or Sith extensively so its unlikely they would get much of a mention in our image to perspective clients, but I think they will have a part to play among us, just a smaller one. After all, not having force users among us would constitute a weakness others could exploit should they learn of it. We wouldn't want that.

So yeah, I think we could do with an update.

I'll mention it to SureShot upon his return.

What are other people's thoughts on this?

Well when I applied I did so in part 'cause it seemed to me to be a guild looking to exist mostly outside of faction-specific conflict, with what I would call a more pragmatic view (you might call it egotistical as well I suppose) and self-interest as a motivator.
The two classes that I saw getting most focus by far where BH and Smuggler which are both imo more loosely allied with their faction than the others anyway (they're there because it benefits them usually, not for some 'higher calling').

I liked the idea of being a bystander that gets drawn into the conflict through circumstances beyond my control/choice (very Han Solo ).
Even the name 'AGENTS of the e.p.o.c.h.' made me think of secrecy, subtlety and manipulation (more than direct conflict).

Anyway that was my outside view of it.

As far as giving a perception to others goes, I obviously think of something graphical: HoD for instance has an intro-movie thingamajig, maybe we could throw something like that together (I'd be happy to tinker on that anyways).

P.S.:

Lunarwolf wrote:

At the end of the day we are meant to be a small, elite (and expensive!) group that people can call on to get the job done (A bit like the A-Team, except not so camp or stuck in the 80's! )

Screw spaceships, let's get a Star Wars Shaggin' Wagon:

hahaha - when I scrolled down I got all excited then the wind blew out of my sails when it didn't have a big "AGENTS OF THE E.P.O.C.H." logo stamped on that van

Nice to see an "outside" view as you put it, SF - most of us have been here so long now we tend to view EPOCH (or B4H as it was known) as part of SW:TOR so its good to see outside the box sometimes.

Although it is good to look at the thread: "Your Class & E.P.O.C.H." to get a good idea of how each of the classes fits into our outlook.

I did think when I first joined this would be a BH only Guild but even then seeing Nex Deus Jedi I knew it wouldn't be completly so, now I wouldn't be surprised to see any class here Sith, Jedi, as were nuetral we open to everyone who can get the job done!
I think the new name goes along way to combat the bounty hunter image "Agents of the E.P.O.C.H" is certainly too vague to label us with any specific class, so for new applicants it won't give them to wrong impression but our allies may be still be stuck with the B4H thinking.

I agree with your description red, personally when i joined this guild i was set on being a Smuggler, now i wanna be a more assassin/bounty hunter character with a Smuggler alt since that side of things interests me more now.

I really hope we don't start recruiting Jedi/Sith, as I joined B4H/E.P.O.C.H just to get away from them lol. I don't mind them as alts but I really don't think we should go looking for them. It will be interesting being one of the only guilds to be Jedi/Sith free.

Tando wrote:

I really hope we don't start recruiting Jedi/Sith, as I joined B4H/E.P.O.C.H just to get away from them lol. I don't mind them as alts but I really don't think we should go looking for them. It will be interesting being one of the only guilds to be Jedi/Sith free.

I agree with that, though i do plan on making a Sith alt for the guild, i wont play it that often anyhow.

Haha, i think the point of this thread escaped me. D'oh!

Tando wrote:

I really hope we don't start recruiting Jedi/Sith, as I joined B4H/E.P.O.C.H just to get away from them lol. I don't mind them as alts but I really don't think we should go looking for them. It will be interesting being one of the only guilds to be Jedi/Sith free.

Defo agree. I will have a Jedi character but I wont be enlisting him in the guild for that reason. (My Sith character I had originally created will now be an assassin/spy or whatever the unannounced class to mirror the smuggler is)

Artekus wrote:

Haha, i think the point of this thread escaped me. D'oh!

Tando wrote:

I really hope we don't start recruiting Jedi/Sith, as I joined B4H/E.P.O.C.H just to get away from them lol. I don't mind them as alts but I really don't think we should go looking for them. It will be interesting being one of the only guilds to be Jedi/Sith free.

Defo agree. I will have a Jedi character but I wont be enlisting him in the guild for that reason. (My Sith character I had originally created will now be an assassin/spy or whatever the unannounced class to mirror the smuggler is)

Yeah I may be swapping Xen out for an Assassin if they make them, but if its a Spy instead, she'll be staying a Bounty Hunter.

Lunarwolf wrote:

Artekus wrote:

Haha, i think the point of this thread escaped me. D'oh!

Tando wrote:

I really hope we don't start recruiting Jedi/Sith, as I joined B4H/E.P.O.C.H just to get away from them lol. I don't mind them as alts but I really don't think we should go looking for them. It will be interesting being one of the only guilds to be Jedi/Sith free.

Defo agree. I will have a Jedi character but I wont be enlisting him in the guild for that reason. (My Sith character I had originally created will now be an assassin/spy or whatever the unannounced class to mirror the smuggler is)

Yeah I may be swapping Xen out for an Assassin if they make them, but if its a Spy instead, she'll be staying a Bounty Hunter.

Well same really, a spy class isn't very appealing to me.

I always saw the EPOCH as an agency for "agents" that took in contracts from clients and gave them to the agents that it saw fit. However, unlike other agencies, the EPOCH also functions as its own neutral faction in its own right so the agents are in fact not free lance and instead, close knit workers that will work together on many occasions. And, as a faction, this means that alliances can be made, and jobs can be created by the Falleen himself. So in fact, the EPOCH is more than just an agency that allocates jobs. That's my take on it.

As for the actual back story, I believe that Sureshot's is working on it and I've seen a rough draft of it, though I don't particularly want it on the newsletter to not cause too much fuss about the subject. Besides, its in it's early days so there's really not much to report...

Some excellent points here guys and it appears that the large majority of you really do understand the purpose of the guild now, but I think the more we work on the more apparent it becomes anyway. The guild structure and heirarchy chart and the Your Class & E.P.O.C.H threads that I did I think at least started to show the agency for what is really is, or at least I hope it did.

Some points that I think I need to address are the following:

The whole 'should we have Jedi and Sith in the guild controversy' is a concern for some of you I can see, but you have to remember that we only have 1 Jedi in the guild thus far and he's a corrupt individual anyway aren't you Mr. Deus?

The reason I allow (I use that term lightly) Force users into the guild is because we still don't know how the game mechanics work properly and of course I don't like restricting people's choices when it comes to choosing classes. For all we know Jedi may be on the only tank/melee class on the Rep side, which could leave us pretty screwed in big instances or raids. More importantly though this guild is about the characters and if it means bringing in some classes that people don't like then I think thats @%&# great! It says to me 2 things - diversity and great potential for IC conflict. Hell, I know Creed will have a problem with any higher society types (if they're in game) cause he hates snobbery.

Another thing I want to make a point of is that we're still attracting the right kind of members. I think S-Fox's post alone prooves that the name of the guild says straight away that we're the following (to quote you sir):

TheSweatyFox wrote:

Even the name 'AGENTS of the e.p.o.c.h.' made me think of secrecy, subtlety and manipulation (more than direct conflict).

See if we'd just left it as EPOCH or Blasters For Hire that could mean everything and anything but adding that "Agents" at the front says a LOT more about what we're about. I hate to use GTC as an example here but when I look at their name I just see a TOR version of the Galactic Trade Federation which has NOTHING to do with what they're actually about. Am I alone in thinking that doesn't sound very crime related?

Last but not least cause this is very important I'd like to bring up you smugglers because as you know I'm planning on being one myself so it is very important to me that you get noticed as a MAJOR part of the guild, and I will adjust the FAQ to show this. As you know you lot are part of a new enterprise that lore-wise has only been brought in because with tensions in the galaxy the way they are we all have the chance to make a quick buck. The "Protection" part in the name E.P.O.C.H does actually describe us smugglers as well. Protection doesn't have to be just about "saving people" it's about valuable cargo as well. Everyone knows that most smugglers will protect their financial interest with thier life and I want to portray that in our agency.

Good good good! That all sounds very right and proper Mr Shot. And I'm glad to read your comments about force users. I also thought it would be short sighted to disallow recruitment of two whole character classes before we know their value and uses within the game (especially if they turn out to be primary healers via force powers, was my first thought).

I agree that overall focus should remain on non-force users, but I see (what would technically be) Gray Jedi/Sith as having a definite place within such an organisation as E.P.O.C.H. Speaking RP-wise, only a fool at the top of an organization like ours would fail seize the advantages offered by such individuals, though their numbers would be kept low and they would never be fully trusted, in my eyes. And guild-wise it's only fair to allow people to play whatever class they want to so long as the characters fit in.